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Showing posts with label Complele education. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Complele education. Show all posts

Monday, January 17, 2011

Jnana and Vijnana

"The yogi who is filled with the contentment of wisdom asn discriminative knowledge,who is firm as a rock,who has masteres his senses,and to whom a cold of earth,a stone and gold are the same,is possessed of Yoga."

Jnana here means listening to reading from shastras,mediating over them,studing them,and vijnana means realizing the atman in direct experience.Jnana is understanding through reason,and vijnana is that knowledge which sinks through reason into experience.Jnana is knowledge obtained from shastras,where as vijnana is knowledge whish is part of one's experience.Non-violence will have become direct experience for us in this sense when our whole life comes tp be permeated wit the spirit of compassion,when non-violence manifests itself in us in its true essence.That boy who comes to fell compassion as his own experience will to that extent have purifies himself ,or attained knowledge of the self.

He whose atman is filled to perfect contentment with such Jnana and vijana,who dwells firmly like kuta-he is a kutastha that is who endures blows as the anvil does without ever breaking into pieces,remains unshaken in the midst of even extreme suffering-who has subdued his senses completely,such a one may be described as a yogi who has attained freedom.He has become united with God,has become inwardly purifies.To such a Yogi,clay,stone and gold,all are equal.All three come from earth.Earth which has hardened is stone.Gold silver diamonds,sapphire,all these are transformations of earth.But they are all without any worth-everyone of them is but dust.If we shed greed,we would look upon all these articles with the same eye.

Jnana and Vijnana

Jnana and Vijnana — Reader Guide — Reader questions

Reference: Jnana and Vijnana is presented here as a concise topic note. The useful approach is to understand the basic concept, consider the context in which it applies, and verify version-specific or specialist details before acting on the information.

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Friday, July 16, 2010

The wining qualities of creatures

A person who imbibes these twenty qualities and makes them apart of his character, he is successful in all endeavors in all conditions. The failure is not his slot. He is a winner all the way.

The 20 lessons we a can learn from various creatures to emerge a winner in all our endeavors. the lessons are as under

The lion : It stalks the prey, pounces on it with full force, grabs it and does not relax its hold till the job of killing is executed.

Similarly a man must plan , launch the project with full force and keep up the pressure until the project is not completed.

The crane : It spots fish, immobilizes its entire body., calculates all the aspects of the attack during the frozen period; the time , place distance, angle force required, speed etc. then it attacks. In a flash the fish is taken.
Similarly, a man must concentrate on his project and calculate all the requirements minutely before beginning it.

The Donkey :Learn three thing from donkey; work tirelessly be stoic and don't complain. You will become favorite worker of your employer. If you are your own master, then you will achieve greater things.

The Cock: The cock teaches us four things; getting up early in the morning. Defending your interest zealously like the cock defends its roost. Giving others their due share.
Claiming your share rightfully without letting anyone steal it.

The Crow : Imbibe five qualities or characteristics a crow displays; Make love in privacy. Don't make it and collect the desirable. Be ever vigilant like a crow. Don't let others scare you away. And do not put your faith totally in any one else.

The Dog: It has six things to teach us : Eat well, don't worry if the next food is delayed/ sleep well. But be careful and wake up at the slightest disturbance like a dog does. Be loyal to your master or to you friends or whoever is important to you. Be brave and fight if needed.

The wining qualities of creatures

  • A person who imbibes these twenty qualities and makes them apart of his character, he is successful in all endeavors in all conditions.
  • He is a winner all the way.

    The 20 lessons we a can learn from various creatures to emerge a winner in all our endeavors.
  • The lessons are as under

    The lion: It stalks the prey, pounces on it with full force, grabs it and does not relax its hold till the job of killing is executed.

    Similarly a man must plan, launch the project with full force and keep up the pressure until the project is not completed.

    The crane: It spots fish, immobilizes its entire body., calculates all the aspects of the attack during the frozen period; the time, place distance, angle force required, speed etc.
  • In a flash the fish is taken.
    Similarly, a man must concentrate on his project and calculate all the requirements minutely before beginning it.

    The Donkey:Learn three thing from donkey; work tirelessly be stoic and don't complain.

Dharma(for real duty of a man )

  • A man should save money for bad days but woman should be protected even if it takes the money saved.
  • But for self preservation, the money and the woman should be sacrificed, if required.
  • But in case of family, to protect family or Nation you have to sacrifice yourself.

    A man should not make a place his home where there are no; prosperous people, soldiers, scholars, a government, river and physicians.
  • These things are must to live in a place to make home you can ensure much better future there.

    A real brother is one stands by; in the period of grave illness, in times of misfortune, during famines or invasions by enemy, in royal court and inn death.

Dharma(for real duty of a man )

A man should save money for bad days but woman should be protected even if it takes the money saved.But for self preservation,the money and the woman should be sacrificed,if required.But in case of family,to protect family or Nation you have to sacrifice yourself.

A man should not make a place his home where there are no;prosperous people,soldiers,scholars,a government, river and physicians.These things are must to live in a place to make home you can ensure much better future there.

A real brother is one stands by;in the period of grave illness,in times of misfortune,during famines or invasions by enemy,in royal court and inn death. He will stick through thick and thin.If you are a brother you should follow the above mentioned things to be a real brother and complete person.

The one who runs after an uncertain object leaving the certain one,does not get any .He loses the both. A complete person should think about his project before starting it and don't take miscalculated ricks take only calculated ones.

A wise man must marry a girl of high breed even if she be ugly to look at.He should not fall for a girl of low upbringing however beauteous she may be. The best course is to marry in the family of equal status. Their thought patterns are just a like .

Don't ever trust; the beasts with claws or sharp horns,rivers,the armed persons,women and the members of the royal families.They all are unexpectedness .

If there is nectar in poison ,accept it ,If there is precious metal of object in filth,retrieve it.If a low bredes man has some good knowledge,wisdom,art or quality,imbibe it.If a woman born to a family of disrepute turns out to be a lady of high qualities,possess such a gem. The quality of an end product is what really matters.
Don't speck falsehood,starting a work without giving it any consideration or though,daredevilry,deceitful behavior,foolish acts, greed,impurity and cruelty;these are things basic to the nature of the women.With proper education you can overcome these troubles.


the rue son is who obedient to his father,a true father is one who looks after his sons,similarly true friend is one who is trustworthy .

avoid these friendship; A friend who talks flatteringly sweet t6hings overtly but covertly tries to harm should be gotten rid of with out any delay./He is like a pot that is filled with poison but topped with a cream to deceive.

What plan you have thought of in your mind should not come on your tongue.Contemplate and rethink over it,keeping it guarded.Put the idea or plan into action wroth out voicing it .Revealing the plan shall invite suggestions and criticisms on it which can dampen your spirits.

Those parents are worst enemies of their children;who do not teach letters and educate them.Because an uneducated person is spurned in the assembly of the learned people.He is total misfit as a crane is in the flock of stately swans.

A man must read and study a shloka everyday.If it is not possible,read half of it,or a part of it or at least a word .Never let any day go without some study of a written word. One should make his day fruitful by doing good work and study.One should continue education to the end .

A wise man's duty;to marry his daughter in high family,to give high education to sons,do introduce the enemy to some fatal addiction and to get his friend engaged in some noble task.

Don't do the too much.Too much beauty got sita kidnapped,too much ego got Ravana killed and too much charity got Raja Bali in deep trouble.Too much of anything is bad.Stay away from too much.

Indulge son up to the fifth year of his age,cane and rebuke can be used for the next ten years,But when he enters 16th year of his age,then on he must be treated as a friend by the father.

A person who has no faith, no wealth, no love and no salvation, goes on taking birth and dying without any purpose.

A man must quit a religion that does not preach love and kindness.similarly one should leave a teacher who has no knowledge to impart,a woman who has short temper and relatives who have no love to give.

A wise person must always keep in mind the following thoughts being plundered over,How is he the time treating me?How many true friends I have made? How is the place I live at? How much do I earn and how do I spent, Who am I and What I am capable of?

Problems come to every one.The wise ones Rightly are afraid of crisis and troubles when they appear on the horizon.But when they arrive one should get up and boldly face them.


You can win over; a greedy by offer of money,a proud person by cowering before him,a fool by agreeing with him and a scholar by speaking the truth.Clever man must concentrate his attention on his gaol just like a crane .When it spots a fish it stands iimobile, eyes fixed on the target.

A wise person must not reveal on others;the loss of money,the deep wound of heart,scandal of the family, the incidents of getting cheated or insulted

Don't not be too simple and too straight.Go to the jungle to see how the smooth and straight trees have been cut down mercilessly but the crooked ones stand unharmed.

A real happy is a man whose mind is at peace and the heart is content.Running around to amass wealth and money can't give happiness.

Religion

The one great idea that to me seems to be clear and comes out through masses of Superstition in every country and in every religion, is the one luminous idea that man is divine, that divinity is our nature - By Swami Vivekananda.

Religion is a very sensitive matter to explain. But we have to explain about Religion to become a complete person . To my experience all the religions and Gurus and babas of those religion are all preaching the same thing in different ways.

Religion does not consist in doctrines or dogmas. It is not what you read, or what dogmas you believe that is of importance, but what you realize. " Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God," yea, in this life. And that is salvation. There are those who teach that this can be gained by mumbling of words. But no great Master ever taught that external forms were necessary for salvation. The power of attaining it is within ourselves. We live and move in god. Creeds and sects have their parts to play, but they are for children, they last but temporarily. Books never make religions, but religions make books. We must not forget that. No book ever created God, but god inspired all the great books. And no book ever created a soul. We must never forget that. The end of all religions is the realizing of God in the soul.That is the one universal religion.IF there is one universal truth in all religions, I place it here - in realizing God. Ideals and methods may differ, but that is the central point.

Religion is a path to attain divine, but you have to follow the same path truly and completely to attain our goal of freedom. I don't care about which path you following but you must follow it fully to the means and to the attain the goal.

But all the aspects of the path is always difficult to follow, following partially is easy but for the fullest level of following it is very difficult it needs strength or bhakti(with bhakti you can attain and do what ever; it is infinity I am not going to explain it is very much difficult to explain ti must be experienced) but I can explain about the strength to attain the goal. You are born with all the strength to attain the ultimate goal, but you have to practice how to use it in a proper way, using strength in uncontrolled manner is wasted and destroying like thunder blasts it have thousands of volts but is no use but in case of electricity it is useful in a controlled manner. To get the strength you have to train you mind, subconscious mind, body to perform all the aspects of your religious path. Yoga is helpful to strengthen you. the ultimate religion is self religion. The whole universe is one. There is one self in the universe only one.Existence and that one existence when it passes through the forms of time, space and causation , is called by different name, buddhi, fine matter, gross matter, all mental and physical forms. Everything in the universe is that one appearing in various forms, when a little part of it comes, as it were, into this network of time ,space and causation it takes forms. take off the network and it is all in one. Therefore in the advaita philosophy, the is called Brahman. That self when it appears behind the universe is called God.The same self when it appears behind the universe is called God. The same self when it appears behind this little universe, the body is soul,. This very soul, therefore is the self in man.The highest heaven therefore is in our own souls. The greatest temple of worship is the human soul ,pure body mind is the greatest religion .We must be bright and cheerful, long faces do not make religion. Religion should be the most joyful thing in the world because it is the best. The essential thing in religion is making the heart pure. The kingdom of heaven is with in us, but only the pure heart can see the kingdom while we think at the world ; it is only the world for us; but let us come to it with the feeling that the world is god and we shall have God.

"Doing good to other is the one great ,universal religion".

Religion

  • The one great idea that to me seems to be clear and comes out through masses of Superstition in every country and in every religion, is the one luminous idea that man is divine, that divinity is our nature - By Swami Vivekananda.

    Religion is a very sensitive matter to explain.
  • But we have to explain about Religionto become a complete person.
  • To my experience all the religions and Gurus and babas of those religion are all preaching the same thing in different ways.

    Religion does not consist in doctrines or dogmas.
  • It is not what you read, or what dogmas you believe that is of importance, but what you realize.

Freedom( The Intense Desire to be Free)

reedom is the anger of the Soul - Moshe dayan

All of us are born with freedom those expect where people affected by wars and terrorists.. The only bound is your Ego, you are thinking of you as you are now. But that's not you and you are limit less, when ever you think beyond your ego you can become free from all.
Take an example of an eagle who was accidentally breed with a flock of chickens. It was hatched in the chicken farm,. It lived it life with chicken and it thought it also a chicken and start to doing all the things that a chickens do for living. Since she thought she also a chicken .One day it saw an eagle flying above the sky and said I want fly like that bird. All the chickens said it is majestic Eagle which flies high above the sky and said that your a chicken and you can' fly like an Eagle. So the eagle thinking it as a chicken never tried to fly like an eagle and lived like a chicken and dead like chicken .
Even ego is like a chicken which prevent you like an eagle remember the fact that scientifically the bumble bee can't fly; but flies because it doesn't know that it can't fly.

Freedom( The Intense Desire to be Free)

  • reedom is the anger of the Soul - Moshe dayan

    All of us are born with freedom those expect where people affected by wars and terrorists..
  • The only bound is your Ego, you are thinking of you as you are now.
  • But that's not you and you are limit less, when ever you think beyond your ego you can become free from all.
    Take an example of an eagle who was accidentally breed with a flock of chickens.
  • It was hatched in the chicken farm,.

The Most Dangerous Tool

  • Overview:

    "The yogi who is filled with the contentment of wisdom asn discriminative knowledge, who is firm as a rock, who has masteres his senses, and to whom a cold of earth, a stone and gold are the same, is possessed of Yoga." Jnana here means listening to reading from shastras, mediating over them, studing them, and vijnana means realizing the atman in direct experience.

  • Jnana is understanding through reason, and vijnana is that knowledge which sinks through reason into experience.
  • Jnana is knowledge obtained from shastras, where as vijnana is knowledge whish is part of one's experience.
  • Non-violence will have become direct experience for us in this sense when our whole life comes tp be permeated wit the spirit of compassion, when non-violence manifests itself in us in its true essence.

The Most Dangerous Tool

"The yogi who is filled with the contentment of wisdom asn discriminative knowledge,who is firm as a rock,who has masteres his senses,and to whom a cold of earth,a stone and gold are the same,is possessed of Yoga."

Jnana here means listening to reading from shastras,mediating over them,studing them,and vijnana means realizing the atman in direct experience.Jnana is understanding through reason,and vijnana is that knowledge which sinks through reason into experience.Jnana is knowledge obtained from shastras,where as vijnana is knowledge whish is part of one's experience.Non-violence will have become direct experience for us in this sense when our whole life comes tp be permeated wit the spirit of compassion,when non-violence manifests itself in us in its true essence.That boy who comes to fell compassion as his own experience will to that extent have purifies himself ,or attained knowledge of the self.

He whose atman is filled to perfect contentment with such Jnana and vijana,who dwells firmly like kuta-he is a kutastha that is who endures blows as the anvil does without ever breaking into pieces,remains unshaken in the midst of even extreme suffering-who has subdued his senses completely,such a one may be described as a yogi who has attained freedom.He has become united with God,has become inwardly purifies.To such a Yogi,clay,stone and gold,all are equal.All three come from earth.Earth which has hardened is stone.Gold silver diamonds,sapphire,all these are transformations of earth.But they are all without any worth-everyone of them is but dust.If we shed greed,we would look upon all these articles with the same eye.

Who deserves the shastras?

It is stated in the Gita itself that everyone,whether a woman,a vaisya or a sudra,can acquire spiritual know2ledge if they have devotion to God.All the same,learning should not be slighted. TO understand any mater,one must have the knowledge which comes from learning.


In Gita there are,however,principles for the guidance of the common man too.Any interpretation of a shastra which is opposed to truth cannot be right.The shastras are not meant for those who question the validity of the principle of truth itself,or,rather,the shastras are no better than ordinary book for such a person. No one can meet him in argument.Anyone,on other hand,who does not find the principle of non- voilence in shastras is indeed danger,but his case is not hopeless.Truth is a positive value, While non-voilence is a negative value.Truth affirms,Non-voilence forbids something which is real enough.Truth exists,untruth does not exist.Voilence exists,non-voilence does not.Even so,the highst dharma for us is that nothing but non-voilence can be.Truth is its own proof, and non-voilence is its supreme fruit.The latter is neccessary contained in the former.Since,however,it is not evident as truth is ,one may try todiscover the meaning of the shastras with out believing in it.But the spirit of non-voilence alone will reveal to one the true meaning of shastrs.

Who deserves the shastras?

  • It is stated in the Gita itself that everyone, whether a woman, a vaisya or a sudra, can acquire spiritual know2ledge if they have devotionto God.
  • All the same, learning should not be slighted.
  • TO understand any mater, one must have the knowledge which comes from learning.


In Gita there are, however, principles for the guidance of the common man too.
  • Any interpretation of a shastra which is opposed to truth cannot be right.
  • Why the injunction against sudras studing the Vedas?

    For understanding the meaning of shastras,one must have a well-cultivated moral sensibility and experience in the practise of their truths.The injunction against sudras studing the vedas is not altogther unjustified. A sudra,in other words,a person without moral education,with out sense and without knoledge,would completely misread the shastras.No person,even if grown up in age,is qualified to understand difficult problems in algebra without preparqation.Before anyone can undestand such problems,he must have studied the elements of the subject.How would 'Aham Brahmasmi'souns in the mouth of a lustful man?what meaning,or distorted meaning,would he not attach to it?Hence,anyone who offers to interpret the shastras must have observed the prescribed disciplined in his life.A mechanical observance of these disciplines is as futile as it is difficult.The shastras regard it essential that one shoul have a guru.

    Why the injunction against sudras studing the Vedas?

    • For understanding the meaning of shastras, one must have a well-cultivated moral sensibility and experience in the practise of their truths.
    • The injunction against sudras studing the vedas is not altogther unjustified.
    • A sudra, in other words, a person without moral education, with out sense and without knoledge, would completely misread the shastras.
    • No person, even if grown up in age, is qualified to understand difficult problems in algebra without preparqation.

    Realisation of truth

    • Tapascharya is certainly necessary for the realization of truth.
    • Some sage who had realized truth revealed to the world the goddess of non-violence from amidst the prevailing violence, and said:"violence comes of illusion; it avails not.
    • Non-violence alone is true."Without non-violence, it is not possible to realize truth.
    • The vows of brahmacharya, non-stealing and non-possession are of importance for the sake of non-violence, they help one to realize it in oneself.

    Realisation of truth

    Tapascharya is certainly necessary for the realization of truth. Some sage who had realized truth revealed to the world the goddess of non-violence from amidst the prevailing violence,and said:"violence comes of illusion;it avails not.Non-violence alone is true."Without non-violence,it is not possible to realize truth. The vows of brahmacharya, non-stealing and non-possession are of importance for the sake of non-violence,they help one to realize it in oneself. It is the life- breath of truth. Without it, man is a beast. The seeker after truth will discover all this very early in his quest, and then he will have no difficulty at any time in understanding the meaning of Shastras.

    The second rule to be followed in determining the meaning of a text in a shastras is that one should not stick to its letter, but try to understand its spirit, its meaning in the total context. Tulasidas's Ramayana is one of the greatest works because its spirit is that of purity, compassion and devotion to God. An evil fait awaits one who beats his wife because Tulasidas has said in his work that a sudra, a dull witted person, a beast and a woman merit chastisement. Rama not only never raised his hand against Sita, He did not even displeased her at any time. Tulasidas merely stated a common belief. He could never have thought that there would be brutes who might beat their wives and justify their action by reference to his verse. Maybe Tulasidas himself, following the practice of his time, used to beat his wife ; what even then? The practice does not cease to be reprehensible. In any case, his Ramayana was not composed to display the character of a perfect man, to tell us about sita, the noblest among chaste and devoted wives, and to delineated the ideal devotion of Bharat. The support which the work seems to lend to evil custom should be ignored. Tulasidas did not compose his priceless work to teach geography. We should, therefore, reject any erroneous statements of a geographical characters which we may find in it.
    Only those who have experience in the practice of truths can realize the real meaning of shastras(the ultimate truth) .

    THE BHAGVADGITA (the supreme of all guidelines to dharmas)

    • In Gita the subject matter is simply the realization of Brahman and the means thereto; the battle is only the occasion for its teaching.
    • One can say, if one likes that the poet used it as an occasion because he did not look upon was as morally wrong.
    • On reading the Mahabharta I formed quite a different impression.
    • Vyasa wrote his supremely beautiful epic to depict the futility of war.

    THE BHAGVADGITA (the supreme of all guidelines to dharmas)

    In Gita the subject matter is simply the realization of Brahman and the means thereto;the battle is only the occasion for its teaching.One can say,if one likes that the poet used it as an occasion because he did not look upon was as morally wrong.On reading the Mahabharta I formed quite a different impression.Vyasa wrote his supremely beautiful epic to depict the futility of war.What did the Kauravas' defeat and the Pandavas'victory avail?How many among the victors survived? What was their fate?What was the end of Kunti,mother of the Pandavas? what trace is left today of the Yadasva race?

    Since the Gita's subject is not description of the battle and justification of violence,it is perfectly wrong to give much importance to these.If,moreover,it is difficult to reconcile a few of the vewrses with the idea that the Gita advocates non-violence,it is still more difficult to reconcile the teaching of the works as a whole with the advocacy of violence.

    When a poet composes his work,he does not have a clear conception of all its possible implications.It is the very beauty of a good poem that it is greater than its author.The truth which poet utters in his moment of inspiration,we do not often see him following in his own life.Hence the liuves of many poets are at variance with the teaching of their poems.That the overall teaching of the Gita is not violence but non-violence is evident from the argument which begins .Voilence is simply not possible unless one i driven by anger,by ignorant love and by hatered.The Gita,one the otherhand wants us to be incapable of anger and attain to a state unaffected by the three gunas.Such a person can never feel anger.I see even now the red eyes of Arjuna every time he aimed an arrow from his bow,drawing the string as far as his ear.

    But,then had arjuna's obstinate refusal to fight anything to do with non-violence?Infact,he had fought often enough in the past.On the present occasion,his reason was sudenly clouded by ignorant attachement.He did not wish to kill his kinsmen.He didnot say that he would not kill any one even if he believed that person to be wicked.Shri Krishna is momwntaly darkening of Arjuna's reason.He,therefore tells him "you have already commited violence by talking now like a wise man,you wil not learn non-violence.Having started on this courswe,you must finish the job."If a passenger travelling in a train which is running at a speen of forty miles an hour suddenly feels aversion to travelling and jumps out of the train,he will have but commited suicide.He has not in truth realized the futility of travelling as such or of travelling by train.Arjuna was in similar condition.Krishna,who believed in non-violence,could not have given from this that the Gita teaches violence or justifies war is as unwarranted as to as to argue that,since violence is some form or other is inescapable of maintaining the body in existence,dharma lies only in violence.The man discriminating intellect,on the other hand,teaches the duty of striving for deliverance from this body which exists through violence,the duty,that is ,of striving for moksha.

    But whom does Dhritarashtra represent,and likewise Duryodhana,Yudhishthira or Arjuna?Whom does krishna represent? Were they historical personages/does the
    Gita relate their actual doings?Is it likes that Arjuna should suddenly,with out waning ask a question whin the battle was about to commence,and that Krishna shoud recite the whole Gita in reply?And then,Arjuna,who had said that his ignorance had been dispelled,forgets what he was taught in Gita,and Krishna is made to repeat in the Anugita.

    Personally,I believe Duryodhana and his supporters stand for the satanic impulses in us,Arjuna and others stand for Godward impulses.The battlefield is our body.The poet-seer,who knows from experience the problems of like,has given a faithful account of the conflct which is eternally going on within us .Shri Krishna is the Lord dweelling in everyones's heart who is ever murmuring His promptings in a pur chitta like a clock ticking in a room.If the clock of the chitta is not wound up with the key of selfpurification,the in-dwelling Lord no doubt remains where he is,but the ticking is heared no more.

    I do not wish to suggest that violence has no place at all in the teaching of the Gita.The dharma which it teaches does not meand that person who has not yet awakened to the truth of non-violence may act like a coward.Anyone who fears others,accumulates possessions and indulges in sense pleasures will certainly fight with violent means but violence does not,for that reason,become justified as his dharma.There is only one dharma.Non-violence means moksha,and moksha means realising Satyanarayana.But this dharma does not under any circustances countenance running away in fear.In this world which baffles our reason,violence there will then always be.The Gita shows the way which lead us out of it,but it also says that we cannot escape it simply by running away from it like cowards .anyone who prepares to run away would do better,instead,to kill and be killed.

    I am sure no one doubts that god,who is omnipotent,is,and must be ,the Creator,the Preserver and the destroyer of the Universe.He who creates has certainly the right to destroy.Even so,He does not kill,for He does nothing.God is so merciful He does not violate the law that every creature that is born will die one day.If HE were to follow His fancies and whims,Where should we be?